Now, the poor had no wherewithal to keep themselves alive when they went into exile in this way, and so the Areopagites used their own money to keep the poor alive and in good condition during that period of time. The way it was somewhat rolled back was that — and not by any legal position, legal action, but rather by sort of the way events went forward. Some would be so fortunate as to have as many as one or two slaves to work alongside them. We do hear of helot rebellions, of course. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Women married young, usually between the ages of twelve and eighteen. Now, let me then try to describe the way in which a new way of dealing with the Persians would come onto the scene. For in spite of their antiquity, the ancient Athenians may have known and believed things we have either forgotten or never known, and we ought to keep open the possibility that in some respects they might have been right about some of these things. The Persians have a fleet in the — well, you can’t really call it the Aegean, it’s around the corner on the southern coast of Asia Minor, the Eurymedon river flows out there and they had a fleet and an army inland. Remember that the mass of Athenians were not faced with the power of what has been called a military industrial complex. If you imagine you’re talking about a hundred and fifty towns, you’ve got the general idea right. The proposer was then taken before a popular court and if the jury decided against him, his proposal was disallowed and he was fined. The distinction between legislative and judicial authority was far less clear than in our own society. The Spartan situation as compared to the Athenian situation, night and day. So far as we know, that’s the only kind of international alliance that the Greeks knew up to that time, offensive and defensive. So, the distribution was unequal, with most families having no slaves and some families having many. In 421, they make a fifty-years peace; on another occasion they make a five-years peace; that’s the way they do things normally. So, they undertook to build the walls around the Acropolis stronger than they had been, and also to make the city walls stronger than they had been. The use of elected representatives in government is not a fully democratic political practice. The jury then, again no deliberation, just voted to choose one or the other, but they could not propose anything of their own; no creative penalties were possible, just one or the other of the ones proposed by each side. Now Sparta, as you’ve seen, when the decision had to be made as to whether they should commit themselves to defending the islands with a kind of a permanent force out there to do that, the Spartans withdrew. friends of Alkestis visit her in the bridal chamber in Admetos’ palace on the day after their wedding (epaulia). Let’s talk about women first. But these things don’t always happen that way. Slaves worked as craftsmen in almost every trade, and it was true for the agricultural slaves on small farms, they worked alongside their masters. So, that they did abuse this opportunity, there’s no question about it. That’s a very big army, the Athenians very rarely sent an army of that size outside of Athens into the Peloponnesus to help the Spartans against the helots. So, in fundamental matters of justice and fairness, the Athenian democrat put very little faith in experts. Thereafter, Themistocles was not so popular in Sparta as he used to be. Although they were pioneers in recognizing the importance, the autonomy, and legitimate claims of the individual, they could not image the fulfillment of the individual’s spiritual needs apart from his involvement in the life of a well ordered political community. Athenian assembly recreation / Wikimedia Commons. The chief occupation, as always before the twentieth century, was agriculture. In light of that breadth of experience, the notion that decisions were made by an ignorant multitude is simply not persuasive. Some of the island states in the Aegean and they apparently were just about all members, are very small indeed. So, that takes care of another situation and than there are all these slaves who worked side by side with their master, not as part of a gang under an overseer, but as a fellow worker with their farmers. On each occasion, the full democracy was restored without turmoil, without class warfare, without killings or exiles or revenge, without confiscating the property of anybody. Their policy books or whatever; they were real debates and the speakers had to respond extemporaneously to difficult questions and arguments from the opposition, nor were they irresponsible displays, but serious controversies leading immediately to votes that had important consequences for the orators and their audiences. Actually, they don’t come into conflict themselves until 457 again, and when that war stops there is a period once again of peace, and then we come to the great Peloponnesian War which dominates the last third of the century. If you have already logged into ted.com click Log In to verify your authentication. Even though the Spartans are the hegemon, they do not confuse this league with the Peloponnesian League. So in the winter of 478-7, there is a meeting of the Greeks who are interested, at the Island of Delos. It was this politically equal, individualistic law abiding, and tolerant understanding of the democracy that Pericles had done so much to create and to which he could appeal, and point with pride confident that his fellow citizens shared his views. Bust of Cimon at the beach of Lamac, Cyprus / Photo by Markus Leupold-Löwenthal, Wikimedia Commons. Close-up of the Pnyx in Athens / Wikimedia Commons. Athens, which had the lion’s share of the power, had only one vote. Enter your email address to receive notifications of new posts by email. I think, as I said earlier, I think probably most of the hoplites could manage that but I think we really don’t know the answer to that. There were clerks, and there were secretaries and some of them worked their way up because of their natural skills, if they worked — this was usually the case, if you found such people in commerce, and most especially in banking. The number of slaves in ancient Greece is a subject of continuing controversy and that’s because we don’t have the kind of evidence to come to a conclusive answer. Now, it’s an interesting sign of the way some of the other Greek states felt that when the Athenians set about building their walls there were complaints from some of the Greek allies to the Spartans that the Athenians were doing this and saying this was a bad idea. One of them, who is to be the leader if there is to be a leader of the Greeks, but beyond that there was some Greek states that had gone over to the Persians in the course of the war. They would certainly have been more votes than the Athenians had. Okay, that’s the comic version; but the real meanings on the Pynx were rarely comic. This is a new thing. Well, the Spartans heard about it, and they heeded their friends complaints enough, so that Themistocles who was — I need to point out to you, though I’m sure you know it, emerged from the war as the great hero. They have to be secretly embittered, because the official policy of Sparta is to accept the Athenian situation, and we’ll see in a moment that events move them in the same direction. He wasn’t under orders to conquer Macedonia. The chief elected officials were ten generals, voted for a one year term. Through many years of hard warfare, military defeat, foreign occupation, and oligarchic agitation, the Athenian democracy persisted and showed a restraint and a moderation rarely equaled by any regime. Ostrakon bearing the name of Aristeides / Agora Museum, Athens. Then they had been kicking it around for a week when the President got on television and told us what the menace was and what he was doing about it. Now, I think we should imagine that the earlier you are in the league, the more there are allied ships and crews, and as you get later and later, until finally you’re into the Peloponnesian War, just about every state doesn’t have a fleet of its own, doesn’t supply crews, but just pays money. After Peisistratus, Athens went through various rulers, including those who were instituted by Sparta. We never hear about piracy anymore; piracy was a problem that the states in the Mediterranean in general suffered from a lot and at different times very, very seriously. Thasos is a relatively big island. When the Samians, particularly took the lead and came to the Athenians and to Aristides and said, won’t you please be our leaders? and it remained an important element in society. Part of the reason is because he treats the Greeks as inferiors, as if they were underlings of the Spartans. For not to take one is even worse, and now the question is serious, whether we take a good or bad one, for there is no easy escape for a woman, nor can she say no to her marriage. Now, this Delian League is unsurpassed among the few international organizations there are in the Greek world. In fact, there are no lawyers at all. There’s no compulsion necessary; he is the one who sets the tone and they follow him. Under this one state, one vote rule, that’s impossible. The meetings are conducted in the decorum of established rules of order that forbid interruptions and personal attack. Both sides, I would argue, were equally glad to see what happened because it was in the interest of both sides. I’m sure there must have been runaway slaves, but it’s just a non-issue so far as we can see. It is not uncommon for participants in a lawsuit to wait for many years before coming to trial. While we might consider elections to be the cornerstone of democracy, the Athenians who coined the term actually employed a lottery system to choose most of their politicians. But also, he had managed, if my reading of the facts is correct, to get rid of everyone of his major political opponents by making use of the device of ostracism. Also, any military or naval campaigns conducted on behalf of the Delian League will have an Athenian general in charge. The Athenians clearly had been sent away not out of friendly reasons, and Thucydides tells us what was on the mind of the Spartans who made these decisions. To track your work across TED-Ed over time, Register or Login instead. The main source for the Greco-Persian Wars is the Greek historian Herodotus. I think it’s 461. It did contain provisions aimed at producing moderate penalties and at deterring unreasonable lawsuits. In excluding such groups, the Athenians were like every other society since the invention of civilization about 3000 B.C. Well, the Greeks also had to decide certain questions that had been created by the war. He wrote his 'Enquiries' (Greek—Historia; English—(The) Histories) around 440–430 BC, trying to trace the origins of the Greco-Persian Wars, which would still have been relatively recent history (the wars finally ended in 450 BC). He is clearly attempting to make a change in the constitution, de facto at the very least, which would allow the naval crowd, the poor people of Athens, who row in the fleets to have more political power and opportunity, and he is also very strongly anti-Spartan, so that he is opposed to both halves of the Cimonian approach to things, and he works at trying to undermine and to defeat Cimon. That wasn’t going to be permitted. Now, the Americans were glad to do it. There’s one anecdote that is handed down about a famous Athenian orator that I think gives you some clue about this. Gold and silver, very rich precious metal sources for the ancient Greek world, of which there were not many, located on Mount Pangaean on the mainland opposite Thasos. Cimon is in charge of that expedition and it proves to be a much tougher problem than any that he has had to face before. Reconstruction of an ancient Greek Trireme battleship / Wikimedia Commons, By Dr. Donald Kagan / 10.25.2007 And there were opinions all along the middle of the way, and so that remained an issue that had to be settled somehow. But that faction, that second faction doesn’t win the argument. Even before that trial Ephialtes had tried another technique by attacking the Areopagus through a tax on particular Areopagites. Allotment was the characteristic device by which the Athenians chose their officials, in accordance with the dominant democratic principle, which was equality, which held that any citizen who is capable of performing civil responsibilities well enough, and it’s corollary that feared allowing executive or administrative power to fall into the hands of a few men, even those who were experienced, or had special abilities. This is a fantastic deterrent and if we don’t understand that we will not understand the way the Athenian assembly worked, because that — but of course you know perfectly well their problem was much greater. I think that we ought to think a little bit longer before we assume our system is the only way one can think about conducting a democracy. Then they turn to the city of Carystos, which is at the southern end of the Island of Euboea. Cimon once again won the argument. Supposing the Athenians had said, we’re not interested and had gone home, just as the Persians had — there was no Greek force except for the poor Asiatic Greeks themselves to resist a Persian return and they couldn’t possibly resist that. One reason for it, according to Aristotle, is that they had played a particularly heroic role in the Persian Wars at the moment when the Persians invaded Attica, and the Athenians were forced to flee their homes, and to go to Salamis, and to the Peloponnesus to escape for that moment. Do you see any iron floating around here in the Aegean Sea? We are your equals was the essence of what he said. How such a man could have been elected general year after year by the masses of the Athenians is a question we need to approach. They thought something else, they thought they were creating a popular republic, and by republic they meant something different from democracy. For there were impressive deterrents, both formal and informal, that would make an inexperienced, ill informed, poorly educated man reluctant to speak up in the assembly or the council even. That is to say, before the Persian Wars were over, Sparta had been unquestionably the leader of the Greeks, when challenged by an outside force. These are essentially questions of life and death, or of the financial security of the state; apart from that they did not care much about expertise. That there will be a factional division among Spartans, at least, this much is true. So I think it was in 478-7 when the formation of the Delian League took place. Nothing is formal; there’s no change in the arrangements, but they just decided to go home. Large landowners generally did not have one single great estate. It doesn’t fit the mold in Sparta, but we never hear of a slave rebellion in spite of all the troubles these towns have. They agreed, as it was typical, in Greek alliances to have the same friends and enemies, common foreign policy. You could imagine that that’s just the end of the Persian threat. So as a result, the number taking part normally was well short of that. The extension of democracy includes: Weakening power of absolute rulers / absolute monarchs. He established a council that would hold administrative and executive power in the city-state. Also, in its growing prosperity, through the greater part of that time, it’s very hard to sustain any kind of a reasonable, moderate regime in times that are hard, in times in which there is great poverty so that was – these were certainly among the reasons why Athens was so successful. I’m sure they range from zero to more than two, but if you’re thinking one or two you’re probably right. We hear as Plutarch tells wonderful stories about in the Olympic games right after the war, people were watching the games when Themistocles arrived, they stopped watching the games and they watched Themistocles, because so great was the admiration and wonder that he created. He was not of the real sort of center of the aristocracy; he was some kind of a less than extraordinary nobility in part of his family, and his personality amid his rivals found troubling, because he was not averse to basking in the glory that he had won. Speeches unhampered by rules of evidence and relevance, and without the discipline imposed by judges could be fanciful, false, and sophistical. Now, this tragedy was produced, we need to remember, at state expense before most of the Athenian population, and was written by a man, who was one of the Athens greatest poets and dramatists. What was different about slavery in Sparta? The Spartans had failed in their efforts to besiege or to storm the position there, and the Athenians had a reputation now of being very good at siege warfare, which they had gained at the end of the Persian War. Publicly held slaves also served as policemen; don’t get carried away there were very, very few policemen. Well, somebody came to him and said, “I’m involved in this lawsuit Lysias and I’d like to pay you for writing a speech on my side,” and Lysias said, “fine.” He went home, he wrote the speech, he brought it to the man, and said, “here it is.” The guy read it and he said, “Lysias this is terrific, great speech, I can’t lose, thanks a million”; Lysias goes home. The war extends for a long time; there’s no success. So, of course, all of these flaws were there, yet from a modern perspective I would argue that the Athenian system had a number of attractions. The evidence, I think, suggests not. Now, the estimates that are made about the free population of Athens in the same period at this height, some people would say as low as — nobody gets much below forty thousand households, some want to move it up towards about sixty thousand households. These were true debates in which it was not possible to hold prepared remarks and look at your — what do they call these books that they use? So anyway, apart from these religious things, Athenian women were expected to remain home, quiet, and unnoticed. They swear this common oath; the Greeks are to fight for the common freedom, to free the Greeks in the islands in Asia Minor. A lot of it, I think, could be described really as a cold war, because there is no fighting between the two states between 479 and about 460, or even a little bit later. In public prosecutions he paid it to the state. But city-states developed these shared characteristics in strikingly different ways. That was over. I quote now from the aristophanic passage, “it is the day of an assembly,” he says — by the way, he’s sitting there all by himself on the Pnyx, nobody has come yet, and there he is complaining. For this purpose, they declared the collection of something they called a phoros. And it was I think that choice that was in the minds of the allies when they sent Dorcis home and said, please no more, and the Spartans did not send a replacement for Dorcis. This is like the Greek League; this is a perpetual alliance. Theater of Dionysus in Athens / Wikimedia Commons. Themistocles says where did you hear that nonsense; we’re building walls? They could be reelected without limit and extraordinary men like Cimon and Pericles were elected almost every year, but they were very exceptional. They send out a replacement. Some of them even disdained the league council and acted according to their own wishes.” So, Diodorus depicts a combined situation of which there are thoughts of defection and actual defections from Athens, and blames this on the behavior of the Athenians of a kind of a tyrannical sort. The bulk of the evidence coming from the law, the actual laws of Athens, from philosophical and moral writings, and from information about the conditions of daily life and the organization of society shows that women were excluded from most public aspects of public life. They had no special political or civil authority, and except on military and naval campaigns, they couldn’t give orders to anybody. So, it’s really not too interesting or amazing to point out this shortcoming from our point of view. Athenian Democracy Vs Athenian Government 1031 Words | 5 Pages The Athenian and Spartan governments had extremely different approaches to life. That’s not the way it happened in the Athenian assembly. Surely, this must have served as a significant deterrent for frivolous, malevolent, and merely adventurous suits. I think that is the key principle to understand when you’re thinking about Athenian democracy. The goal was to discredit the Areopagus as a whole. They could have outvoted them, the Athenians, if they got together. - started around 490 B.C. Most Greeks were, at least theoretically, very appalled at the morals or the lack of morals of the Persians from their perspective. Well, he points out that the allies had gotten themselves into that fix, because many of them — and this is an element Diodorus doesn’t mention, voluntarily said, okay, we’re not going to do this service anymore. Since I am alone, I groan, I yawn, I stretch my legs, I fart, I don’t know what to do, I write, I pull out my loose hairs, I add up my accounts, looking off at my fields, longing for peace, hating the town, sick for my village home which never said, buy my charcoal, my vinegar, my oil, the word buy is unknown there where everything is free.”. A father at first, a husband later, or failing these, an appropriate male relative designated by the law. One is the islands of the Aegean Sea, and we have knowledge of twenty towns that are members from the islands. All of these things make that a much more effective league, able to do what it has to do without any great difficulty in the decision making process, and to make that a little clearer I need to tell you another thing. In case of divorce the dowry would be returned with the woman, but it was still to be controlled in that case by her father, or the appropriate male relative. Of course that vast fleet was rode by poor Athenians, and now they had the glory for the victory and, of course, after the war, when the fleet became the basis of Athenian strength and glory, it was the common man and the poorest of the Athenians, who was involved in achieving that desirable status. The American legal system and court procedures have been blamed for excessive technicality verging on incomprehensibility and for the central role of lawyers and judges which give an enormous advantage to the rich who can afford to pay the burgeoning costs of participating in the legal system. That assertion stopped action on the proposal or suspended its enactment, if it had already been passed. But, of course, the decisions as to what to do, where to go to fight, when to fight and so on, were made by the council of Greeks who were participating. It was open to all the adult male citizens of Athens, during Pericles lifetime; these may have been 40,000 possibly as many as 50,000 men. After completing their year of service, their performance on the job, and especially their financial accounts were subject to audit in a special process called euthuna. Right fifty thousand – that would yield a figure of fewer than two slaves per family. It probably arrived first as secret information at some bureau of the government’s vast and complex intelligence service, although it could also just show up on CNN before the government knows. Plaster cast bust of Thucydides, Athenian general and historian / Pushkin Museum. So Uliades, the commander of the Samian navy, turned, took his ship, sailed it against the flagship of Pausanias, this is at the time when Pausanias is still around, and rams that ship. It was inhabited by non-Greek peoples who made their living out of piracy. To a degree that is amazing to the modern mind, the Athenians kept the management of their public life in the hands of ordinary citizens, away from professors, professionals, experts, bureaucrats, and politicians. What sets the Athenians apart, are not these exclusions, but the unusually large degree of inclusion as well as the extraordinarily significant and rewarding participation of those who were included. The last 30 years of the century furthermore were terrible times of war, plague, impoverishment, and defeat. So, the Athenian soldiers and sailors actually made a profit out of these conquests of the Persian territory, or raids on Persian territory. The picture derived from these sources is largely accurate, but I would argue that it does not fit in well with what we learn from the evidence of a wholly different set of sources. The membership of the league, as best we can figure it out — this is not a hundred percent accurate but it’s not bad. Well, you don’t devise such a complicated system if everybody isn’t busily thinking of a way to cheat, it seems to me. Government by elected representatives, checks and balances, separation of powers, appointment to important offices, unelected bureaucracies, judicial life tenure, terms for elective office of more than one year, all of these would have seen clear and deadly enemies of what reasonable people might understand by democracy. Twice more, at crucial moments, similar proposals were made although without success. In addition, sometimes even oligarchic systems could involve a high degree of political equality, but the Athenian version, starting from c. 460 BCE and ending c. 320 BCE and involving all male citizens, was certainly the most developed.The contemporary sources which describe the workings of democracy typica… You start with this panel of six 6,000 jurors who enlisted to serve in the courts each year. For the reasons I’ve already indicated the Spartans and the Peloponnesians were more likely to take the view that the threat was over. A servant — really not so much at home, while they do not confuse this League with lively! Was too late to have their views shaken up and power conferred prestige, elected officials were ten generals voted. Indeed, in the council of five hundred chosen by election by professional.! 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